| lh
| First of all, thank you all for attending today.
| 15:06
|
| lh
| For those idling in channel, we are starting the first IRC meeting for the TOS FOSS Mentors project
| 15:06
|
| lh
| more here:
| 15:07
|
| lh
| http://www.teachingopensource.org/index.php/FOSS_Mentor_Projects
| 15:07
|
| lh
| agenda for this meeting here:
| 15:07
|
| lh
| http://www.teachingopensource.org/index.php/24_April_2009
| 15:07
|
| lh
| Let's start with introductions.
| 15:07
|
| lh
| I'll go first to get the ball rolling.
| 15:07
|
| lh
| I am Leslie Hawthorn, for my day job I work at Google in the Open Source Programs Office where I manage our two student programs, Summer of Code and the Highly Open Participation Contest (for college/university students and pre-university students, respectively)
| 15:08
|
| ESphynx
| lookin at FOSS_Mentor_Projects, is this a 2nd chance for those who didn't get in GSoC? :)
| 15:09
|
| lh
| I wanted to start this project because many great students want to get involved in Open Source, many professors want help from the community to teach open source and I think the Summer of Code model is a useful way to get started.
| 15:09
|
| lh
| ESphynx: it can be. many great students don't get into GSoC. but it's certainly not just about that. it's about helping projects who want to mentor people live or virtually having a place to list that interest so folks can find them.
| 15:09
|
| lh
| Next introduction?
| 15:09
|
| manus_eiffel
| I am Emmanuel Stapf, working for Eiffel Software on EiffelStudio. EiffelStudio is available under a dual licensed modeal: commercial and GPL. The main development site for EiffelStudio is http://dev.eiffel.com.
| 15:10
|
| lh
| Thanks manus_eiffel. Other introductions?
| 15:10
|
| richardb
| I'm Richard Boulton, from the Xapian search engine project (http://xapian.org); Olly Betts would be here for us too, but can't for timezone reasons. Xapian isn't in GSoC this year; olly and I are both mentoring for GSoC for the SWIG project, but we'd be happy to help mentoring other people.
| 15:10
|
| storming
| I'm Stormy Peters, Executive Director of the GNOME Foundation. (Also founder of Kids on Computers - in my free time.)
| 15:10
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| storming
| GNOME participates in GSOC and HFOSS.
| 15:10
|
| lh
| Thanks richardb and storming. Others want to introduce themselves?
| 15:11
|
| borja
| I'm Borja Sotomayor, a PhD candidate at the University of Chicago doing research on resource provisioning with virtual machines. I work on the open source projects OpenNebula (http://opennebula.org/) and Haizea (http://haizea.cs.uchicago.edu/), where I get to implement and "publish" most of my research.
| 15:11
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| lh
| If I remember correctly, we are also expecting folks from OpenNebula (nudges borja) and CLAM
| 15:11
|
| * vokimon_office wakes, hi
| 15:11
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| AEdmonds
| Andy Edmonds with a history of HCI related research projects using Mozilla technology based in Atlanta, GA & working in UX for agile tools vendor VersionOne.
| 15:11
|
| stjepan
| Stjepan Rajko. Working on http://urbanstew.org/rehearsalassistant/, an android app for the rehearsal process in the performing arts. Also developing http://ame4.hc.asu.edu/amelia/, a generic C++ pattern recognition and synthesis library. Graduate student in dance and computer science.
| 15:12
|
| ahuillet
| My turn: I am Arthur Huillet, with past and present commitment into three open source projects: FreedroidRPG, Nouveau, and Jato. I am here today as project leader of FreedroidRPG, a mature isometric role playing game available under as many operating systems as possible, in need of manpower. We have a lot of little and not so little things to do, and have a certain experience in working with newcomers to open source.
| 15:12
|
| ESphynx
| I'm Jerome Jacovella-St-Louis, main developer of the Ecere SDK, a GUI toolkit, 2D/3D graphics engine, IDE, and packaged with eC dev tools, a new OO C compatible native programming language :) at www.ecere.com ...
| 15:12
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| lh
| Wow, this is an awesome mix of FOSS project types. :)
| 15:13
|
| twanj
| I'm Ant Bryan, I'm involved in Metalink, where we try to improve the download process
| 15:13
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| vokimon_office
| /name vokimon_clam
| 15:13
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| ESphynx
| Forgot to mention BSD licensed ^^
| 15:13
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| lh
| vokimon_office: i think you want /nick
| 15:13
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| vokimon_office
| lh: :-$ yep
| 15:13
|
| philip_
| I'm Philip Olson and mostly work on the PHP Project. I'm also mentoring a gsoc student this year.
| 15:13
|
| * vokimon_office is now known as vokimon_clam
| 15:13
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| lh
| ah ha!
| 15:13
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| lh
| vokimon_clam: please introduce yourself and tell us a bit about CLAM
| 15:14
|
| lh
| and I believe the ASF may also have sent a representative, so that would be our last expected introduction
| 15:14
|
| lh
| vokimon_clam: are you lagged my friend?
| 15:15
|
| vokimon_clam
| yes, i am David Garcia from the CLAM project, CLAM is a framework to build applications that deals with audio and music http://clam-project.org, some highlights are chord and rhythm detection, voice processing, 3D audio...
| 15:16
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| lh
| awesome.
| 15:16
|
| lh
| anyone from Apache here who'd like to introduce themselves?
| 15:16
|
| * lh waits for a minute
| 15:16
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| * kussmaul (n=Clif@216-164-189-151.c3-0.atw-ubr3.atw.pa.cable.rcn.com) has joined #teachingopensource
| 15:18
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| kmarsden
| I am with the Apache Derby project and am interested in this program to get more students involved in Derby and also to give a second chance to some GSoC applicants. I don't represent all of Apache though.
| 15:18
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| lh
| kmarsden: understood. thanks for introducing yourself.
| 15:18
|
| lh
| next on the agenda: scope of this project
| 15:19
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| lh
| my original vision was to give FOSS projects that want to mentor a home to advertise that they need help and for a team to convene to provide guidance about how best to do outreach
| 15:19
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| lh
| what do other folks see as a mission for this project?
| 15:20
|
| * hecker (n=hecker@pool-173-64-123-199.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #teachingopensource
| 15:20
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| storming
| how will the people that want mentoring find out about it?
| 15:21
|
| storming
| (or is that what we'll have to decide? :)
| 15:21
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| manus_eiffel
| Although in line with what you just said, one of the mission, would be to help FOSS projects to get this right.
| 15:21
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| lh
| storming: thus far, we haven't done a lot of outreach since we had yet to get everyone together.
| 15:21
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| twanj
| lh: I always wanted to start some type of global community service type thing for software...
| 15:22
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| lh
| storming: yes we will need to decide how to advertise the project, we have many good options
| 15:22
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| lh
| twanj: that is interesting. how do you see that working?
| 15:22
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| ahuillet
| I was thinking we could try to outreach to the world of education
| 15:22
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| ESphynx
| Is there some kind of funding similar to GSoC for the students/contributors to get paid?
| 15:23
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| lh
| twanj: for example, do we want to provide some sort of certificate or letter from Teaching Open Source saying "so and so has worked on such and such project"?
| 15:23
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| ahuillet
| I mean, there are lots of students every year carrying out school projects. those could be open source projects.
| 15:23
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| lh
| ahuillet: i think that's a very important component to our mission, and very important to consider when we talk about how we advertise this project
| 15:23
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| borja
| I think the mission should also be for students who want to (a) get involved in FOSS or (b) want to work with cool tech, to be able to find mentors who will be able to provide orientation. I guess this is implicit in the "help FOSS projects mentor students", but I tend to prefer learning+teaching goals to be stated in a student-centric way.
| 15:23
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| twanj
| lh: well, just a centralized place for people who want to get involved in open source, where they can find a place to get connected, mentors, who needs what help. I wasn't thinking so academia focused but that may be better
| 15:23
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| lh
| ahuillet: ah, i see.
| 15:23
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| * hecker has quit (Client Quit)
| 15:24
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| philip_
| i imagine every open source project desires help, so am unsure what the goal is here... perhaps a place to teach how to mentor?
| 15:24
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| manus_eiffel
| ahuillet: I agree that informing the professors that there are things out there they can use for their student projects is very good
| 15:24
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| ahuillet
| manus_eiffel : yes, especially since it is not easy
| 15:24
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| lh
| twanj: ok. can the current infrastructure with some fine tuning meet your goals?
| 15:24
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| twanj
| lh: I wasn't thinking that filled a legal requirement for community service, but maybe if that would help?
| 15:24
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| borja
| ahuillet: +1; at two projects I'm at, we frequently get requests of the type "Could I do my master's project with you?"
| 15:24
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| ahuillet
| teachers like "artificial" things that are well defined and completely under their control - at least that's my experience in France
| 15:24
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| twanj
| lh: most likely
| 15:25
|
| richardb
| I don't think we should limit this project to people who are formally students, though that's probably a big area. I see it as being useful for people who are currently working and might want a change of career (whether in IT already or not).
| 15:25
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| lh
| philip_: i think that can be a part of our scope, yes. there are great resources on how to mentor that we could collect on the foss mentors wiki page.
| 15:25
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| lh
| twanj: great
| 15:25
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| ahuillet
| richardb : a career implies money. money isn't something that goes with all open source projects.
| 15:25
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| richardb
| ahuillet: or a change of hobby, then. ;-)
| 15:25
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| manus_eiffel
| ahuillet: having done my education in France, I agree, but I don't think I got much from this approach. This is good for classes but for learning real life stuff, having something less defined is actually much better
| 15:25
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| ahuillet
| manus_eiffel : I agree 100% - just saying that I think it is not easy to convince teachers that the open source community can provide them with projects for their students
| 15:26
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| lh
| richardb: so the goal of teaching open source is the teaching of open source. for now i think we should limit our scope to students and educators, with an eye to expanding that teaching/mentoring further when we have critical mass
| 15:26
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| manus_eiffel
| richardb: We definitely need to go beyond just students
| 15:26
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| storming
| I'd also vote for going beyond students.
| 15:27
|
| * ericb2 does represent OpenOffice.org Education project, has projects (mostly writing code), lot of work for them, but no students. How to find more and become more visible ? :-)
| 15:27
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| lh
| ESphynx: no funding now. i assume if we come up with a brilliant idea we could solicit funding, but for now this is really about everyone volunteering to get good stuff done.
| 15:27
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| storming
| However if we have professors/schools interested in helping, starting with students might be easiest.
| 15:27
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| richardb
| lh: "limit our scope" as in focus outreach on them, I'd agree with. I wouldn't want to turn away anyone who was interested in being mentored juts because they weren't a student, though.
| 15:27
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| manus_eiffel
| richardb: many people have a lot of free time and many do not use it wisely (no judgement here). So to attract them we need to propose something which is more fun than what they currently do in the free time.
| 15:28
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| ahuillet
| richardb : you wouldn't turn away a new contributor to your open source project in any case. :)
| 15:28
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| lh
| richardb: thanks for clarifying. absolutely would not want to turn anyone away and think that whatever resources we create should be useful to all. but as an initial foray into getting people interested and involved, i think students/educators/FOSS projects willing to mentor is a good place to start
| 15:28
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| richardb
| ahuillet: precisely. Though mentoring implies a commitment of time from the mentor, so there are cases where I'd turn down the offer of mentoring someone.
| 15:28
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| lh
| storming: we do have some resources there
| 15:28
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| ericb2
| ahuillet: from where in France are you ?
| 15:29
|
| lh
| so to summarize what i am hearing
| 15:29
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| lh
| 1) people want this project to be a useful resource for anyone who wants to be mentored to work on FOSS project
| 15:29
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| ahuillet
| ericb2 : born in Bordeaux, studying in Grenoble
| 15:29
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| lh
| 2) people want us to also create space in the project for a repository of foss mentoring best practices information
| 15:30
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| richardb
| (I've updated http://www.teachingopensource.org/index.php/24_April_2009 to include the list of people who introduced themselves, BTW. I'll update it with what lh is saying now, if there's agreement on it.)
| 15:30
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| stjepan
| 1 & 2 sound good
| 15:31
|
| lh
| 3) we need to talk about how to get the word out about this project (outreach section of agenda)
| 15:31
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| richardb
| 1,2 & 3 sound good to me.
| 15:31
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| lh
| with regard to audience for this project, i think the best answer is to make our resources useful to anyone, but focus on students/educators for now, as that's in keeping with the goals of TOS
| 15:31
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| lh
| with an eye to perhaps creating a sub/alternate project that focuses on the wider world of foss mentoring when we have critical mass or someone has the time/resources to manage that project
| 15:32
|
| lh
| is this acceptable to folks?
| 15:32
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| vokimon_clam
| we have tight links with people at the catalonian education department, and many open source friendly teachers within the region
| 15:32
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| twanj
| lh: I like it!
| 15:32
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| ESphynx
| this sounds great :) Just hoping I didn't miss out on registering :)
| 15:32
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| lh
| richardb: thanks for your help
| 15:32
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| borja
| sounds good
| 15:32
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| lh
| ESphynx: never too late to sign up
| 15:33
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| richardb
| sounds good
| 15:33
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| philip_
| get 'er done
| 15:33
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| vokimon_clam
| that could help on 3)
| 15:33
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| lh
| storming: what do you think?
| 15:33
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| manus_eiffel
| Sounds find to me too
| 15:33
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| storming
| sounds good
| 15:33
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| lh
| storming: great.
| 15:33
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| lh
| okay let's move on to the next agenda item
| 15:34
|
| lh
| Outreach
| 15:34
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| storming
| (With word out being more than marketing/blogging/speaking.)
| 15:34
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| storming
| Perfect, outreach. :)
| 15:34
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| vokimon_clam
| lh: is not clear for me which kind of student: college, university?
| 15:34
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| philip_
| and perhaps gsoc could use this resource for their mentors which would also help get the word out
| 15:35
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| vokimon_clam
| we have different things to offer to each kind
| 15:35
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| lh
| vokimon_clam: absolutely. hey, if people want to work with pre-university students too that is great.
| 15:35
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| lh
| philip_: exactly. :)
| 15:35
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| manus_eiffel
| vokimon_clam: does it matter which kind of students?
| 15:35
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| manus_eiffel
| I think anyone is more than welcome
| 15:35
|
| * lh stops with the outreach discussion until this point is discussed
| 15:35
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| ahuillet
| I talked with lazzurs recently about mentoring high school students
| 15:36
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| vokimon_clam
| manus_eiffel: i guess so
| 15:36
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| lh
| lazzurs for example
| 15:36
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| lh
| ahuillet: great minds. :)
| 15:36
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| lh
| i know that lucychili also cares about mentoring high school students, though she may be away or just lurking
| 15:36
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| vokimon_clam
| manus_eiffel: at least, tech university vs. any other university and college
| 15:36
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| storming
| which group do we have the most access too?
| 15:36
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| ahuillet
| admittedly it can be a bit more difficult to mentor high school students but I believe it's a very good idea to do it
| 15:36
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| lh
| i think we ought to define a student as anyone who is enrolled in an educational institution be that high school, gymnasium, university, community college, or kindergarten
| 15:37
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| vokimon_clam
| manus_eiffel: we can offer projects for the later, different projects target different educational targets
| 15:37
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| stjepan
| i suppose from a best practices standpoint, a best way to mentor a pre-university student might be slightly different than mentoring a university student. maybe this just means that best practices listed on the website should have a clearly defined context for which they are "best".
| 15:37
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| ESphynx
| lol @ kindergarten
| 15:37
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| ahuillet
| lh : works for me though I'll probably no want to participate in mentoring kindergarten students :)
| 15:37
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| lh
| i have the contacts and network to help drive things at the university level and some at the pre-university level, but i assume folks will do outreach in the areas that interest them most
| 15:37
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| lh
| sound fair?
| 15:37
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| borja
| vokimon_clam: I think every organization can further constraint what types of students they'd be willing to work with
| 15:37
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| ahuillet
| lh : yes, but how?
| 15:38
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| lh
| ahuillet: please clarify for me - how what?
| 15:38
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| ahuillet
| I mean how as an open source project can you contact teachers and convince them that you have something to offer?
| 15:38
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| * lh thinks borja has made an excellent point
| 15:38
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| vokimon_clam
| borja: is not about constraining, but on designing the projects you offer to different audiences
| 15:38
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| stjepan
| ahuillet: yeah this is important
| 15:38
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| ericb2
| ahuillet: I mentored students from Ecole Centrale Nantes ( 5 ) and I got a good experience from that
| 15:38
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| lh
| ahuillet: that's what we will be talking about when we talk about outreach. :)
| 15:38
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| ahuillet
| lh : alright :)
| 15:38
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| borja
| vokimon_clam: Then just indicate in your page that "We're only capable of mentoring such and such type of students for such and such a reason"
| 15:38
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| lh
| have we settled on our definition of student as anyone enrolled in an educational institution of any kind, up to the mentor projects to limit their scope to whatever works best for them
| 15:39
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| ahuillet
| ericb2 : we ought to talk about that after the meeting
| 15:39
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| borja
| vokimon_clam: TOS isn't going to force anyone to target audiences they're not comforable wiht
| 15:39
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| ericb2
| ahuillet: sure :)
| 15:39
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| vokimon_clam
| borja: for example, in clam we can have project on visually assemble a system to analyze phonetics and this won't be that technical but language students could benefit a lot
| 15:39
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| ahuillet
| lh : I guess so, I'd like to suggest that the academic level does not necessarily matter as much as the personnality of the people you are talking to
| 15:39
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| ahuillet
| certain high school students are no doubt "better" than certain university students, and I do not think it is wise for a project to say "we do not wish to work with people with pre-university level"
| 15:40
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| storming
| lh: it seems very broad to me.
| 15:40
|
| * SRabbelier has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
| 15:40
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| vokimon_clam
| borja: right, if you want to
| 15:40
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| lh
| ahuillet: i agree with you, but that may not work well for everyone. perhaps the best suggestion is for folks to say "we would like to work with university students but we would be interested in mentoring folks with this profile" and adapt to fit their needs
| 15:40
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| storming
| Usually the more specific you are, the greater your chances of success.
| 15:40
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| borja
| storming: +1
| 15:40
|
| * SRabbelier (n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #teachingopensource
| 15:40
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| lh
| storming: it definitely is broad. we have folks here with interests in all educational levels.
| 15:41
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| ESphynx
| It seems to me that writing software is something one can very well learn on their own, and thus what about all self-taught students who chose a non-academic path?
| 15:41
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| lh
| ESphynx: outside the scope of this project for now from my perspective, but they can make use of the resources listed certainly
| 15:41
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| lh
| so if "students" is too broad, what is the solution? i think we could have seperate sub-teams working on different academic levels under the foss mentors project umbrella. does this work for folks?
| 15:42
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| manus_eiffel
| ESphynx: as we said earlier, it is up for projects to decide, but would you refuse someone who really wants to do something for your project? Personally I would say no and provide some guidance even if it is not a full mentoring
| 15:42
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| lh
| if you are interested in all academic levels though, then you are doing double duty.
| 15:42
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| philip_
| are students being targeted here because this project initially desires professors as mentors?
| 15:42
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| ahuillet
| philip_ : mentors would be developers from the project, not professors
| 15:42
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| twanj
| philip_: I think professors are the gateway
| 15:42
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| manus_eiffel
| philip_: good point, mentors are both the professors and the project
| 15:42
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| storming
| Good relationships with professors can help keep the flow of student applicants coming ...
| 15:43
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| lh
| ahuillet: if the professors had the skills to be a foss project mentor, they could also mentor. this is more rare, but vokimon_clam provides us with an example of such a person.
| 15:43
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| lh
| storming: agreed.
| 15:43
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| manus_eiffel
| professors are there to help with questions on the fields of studies, and project mentoring for getting into the project
| 15:43
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| lh
| and we also have many professors who want mentoring so that they can teach open source to their students
| 15:43
|
| * cemoi (n=mathieu@AMontpellier-156-1-79-7.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #teachingopensource
| 15:44
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| lh
| and certainly professors are a great way to let students know about opportunities like this one
| 15:44
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| philip_
| ah, cool, so they are like helpful guides for the students which makes sense
| 15:44
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| storming
| There are several professors that have students fix GNOME bugs. Most of the mentoring in that case comes from the professor.
| 15:45
|
| richardb
| I think TOS as a whole shouldn't worry about being "too broad", though it's quite right to focus efforts on certain groups at first. If some projects only want to work with university students, there should be a way to indicate this clearly - and there should probably be an easy way to list all the projects which are willing to work with particular groups.
| 15:45
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| lh
| just to clarify, i think we also want to provide mentorship to professors who want to teach open source or use it in their classrooms, e.g. the folks stormy mentioned
| 15:45
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| richardb
| lh: that's a good point.
| 15:45
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| richardb
| I can think of one such professor who'd probably be interested already.
| 15:45
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| lh
| richardb: sounds like a simple fix is to rearrange the wiki a bit
| 15:45
|
| * lh just might have a list of every CS dept head for all gsoc students for the past 4 years
| 15:46
|
| lh
| *ahem*
| 15:46
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| lh
| think that will help get us started with professor outreach beyond our personal networks, which are no doubt substantial
| 15:46
|
| ericb2
| .
| 15:46
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| lh
| time check: we have 15 minutes
| 15:47
|
| * ericb2 has quit ("Success !!")
| 15:47
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| richardb
| the main groups of people who might want mentoring for our purposes are probably: "university students", "students who aren't at uni" and "not students"
| 15:47
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| * ericb2 (n=x@unaffiliated/ericb2) has joined #teachingopensource
| 15:47
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| richardb
| So the wiki just needs 3 lists, one for each group, listing projects interested in working with such groups.
| 15:47
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| lh
| richardb: good summary. i think we should proceed with this assumption and also the assumption that "not students" will end up being well served by our resources
| 15:47
|
| richardb
| So, outreach: Are we planning to do any formal mass-contact, then? Or perhaps produce posters to put up in our local universities, etc?
| 15:48
|
| lh
| richardb: sure although i know that i personally dont have the resources to champion a project that doesn't involve students. i want to put my energies where i can use them best.
| 15:48
|
| lh
| richardb: that's what we need to discuss now
| 15:48
|
| vokimon_clam
| richardb: wouldn't be teachers another target?
| 15:48
|
| lh
| teachers are most certainly a target, thanks for clarifying that vokimon_clam
| 15:49
|
| lh
| ok folks time check
| 15:49
|
| lh
| 10 minutes
| 15:49
|
| stjepan
| has anyone successfully persuaded a university teacher that is not an open source developer to have their students work on open source projects? what sort of arguments do you use?
| 15:49
|
| lh
| do we need to keep discussing audience? because certainly we need that definitely nailed down before we start talking about how we do outreach.
| 15:49
|
| ahuillet
| stjepan : precisely what I am interested in hearing about :)
| 15:50
|
| lh
| cannot do outreach discussion until we know to whom we are reaching out
| 15:50
|
| stjepan
| lh: i think we should talk about outreach
| 15:50
|
| lh
| stjepan: yes it has been done
| 15:50
|
| ESphynx
| I believe as far as projects are concerned, any skilled potential contributor is of great benefit :)
| 15:50
|
| lh
| stjepan: www.hfoss.org
| 15:50
|
| philip_
| "a list of every CS dept head for all gsoc students for the past 4 years" sounds like a good place to start outreaching
| 15:50
|
| borja
| Outreach: "Computing clubs" at universities (ACM or IEEE student chapters, LUGs, etc.) are typically a good venue for FOSS outreach, specially since messages sent through them typically have a higher probability of percolating to students.
| 15:51
|
| stjepan
| lh: tnx
| 15:51
|
| vokimon_clam
| stjepan: what i mostly found, is the 'i don't use open source but if i knew something about it i would use it' teacher, so menthoring is a good argument
| 15:51
|
| borja
| I know that the ACM at least has contact information for student chapters all around the world.
| 15:51
|
| lh
| okay. summarizing quickly - first outreach foray is focused on students and educators. each project can decide which level of student or academic to work with/target outreach too. if you are interested in mentoring folks beyond these two groups, go for it but it's not our current focus for this project, though our collective resources will naturally help support these efforts
| 15:51
|
| * lh reads scrolls back
| 15:51
|
| lh
| Ok, outreach.
| 15:52
|
| lh
| as storming mentioned, we have traditional routes: our blogs, identi.ca and twitter, speaking engagements
| 15:52
|
| stjepan
| vokimon_clam: that's encouraging, the "i would use it" part
| 15:52
|
| lh
| borja makes an excellent point that reaching out to ACM student chapters is very useful
| 15:52
|
| lh
| as i mentioned, we have a list of department contacts
| 15:53
|
| lh
| so if we want to contact people directly, what will our message to them be? i think this is something we should discuss on the mailing list given a) time constraints and b) irc isn't the best vehicle for that discussion
| 15:53
|
| richardb
| lh agree.
| 15:54
|
| lh
| i think things like on campus flyering, etc are a great idea but we need to build interests at universities before we think about developing such materials. students will be happy to poster for us, etc. they certainly are for summer of code.
| 15:54
|
| vokimon_clam
| stjepan: sadly normaly the 'if i knew it' is an excuse, but the argument is still good
| 15:54
|
| richardb
| We should also consider what time-of-year we should be focussing such efforts.
| 15:54
|
| storming
| I agree. A 2-3 sentence thing we can all say and then elaborate on in our own way.
| 15:54
|
| manus_eiffel
| We could create a wiki entry to prepare the message
| 15:54
|
| lh
| storming: awesome idea.
| 15:55
|
| philip_
| something about giving students real world experience on a project they likely already use every day
| 15:55
|
| lh
| manus_eiffel: that's a great idea. also allows folks to use our templates if they'd like.
| 15:55
|
| lh
| manus_eiffel: would you please create such a wiki page under the FOSS Mentors Project heading?
| 15:55
|
| borja
| If we prepare a message, it might be worth preparing one directed towards faculty members + department heads, and another one directed towards students (computing clubs, etc.)
| 15:55
|
| lh
| borja: absolutely agreed. right message for the right audience.
| 15:56
|
| manus_eiffel
| lh: I can try but I'm not yet sure how to formulate the initial message
| 15:56
|
| richardb
| if we're contacting professors, hoping they'll incorporate TOS into a course somehow, we should contact them in the next month or so, before they start making course plans over the summer for the next academic year (assuming most places are on a similar timetable to the UK - which may be wrong).
| 15:56
|
| * borja suspects many other people here have experienced the "joys" of faculty-wrangling
| 15:56
|
| lh
| manus_eiffel: that's great please do. we are all here to help each other improve our initial drafts
| 15:56
|
| ahuillet
| I believe focusing on professors is what matters the most - they are the ones who decide whether their students will have time to work on open source projects, somehow
| 15:56
|
| ahuillet
| they can decide to integrate open source into a course
| 15:56
|
| lh
| richardb: i agree with you and hope that's feasible given we are all volunteers
| 15:56
|
| ahuillet
| students can only tell us "I'd like to work with you as part of my studies, but it's not up to me to decide"
| 15:57
|
| borja
| ahuillet: but there's also a lot of students who want to work on FOSS outside their classes. I think targetting students is as important as targetting professors
| 15:57
|
| lh
| ahuillet: i agree with you, but if folks want to target students directly no reason not to. bottom up and top down approach for full "coverage"
| 15:57
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| borja
| Plus, students are better positioned to pressure their professors and their department to make changes to courses and entire curricula
| 15:57
|
| lh
| borja makes a good point
| 15:57
|
| ahuillet
| borja : if those people do not contribute already, it is because they did not get the necessary "stimulation"
| 15:57
|
| ahuillet
| the teachers can provide this very stimulation
| 15:58
|
| lh
| Time Check: 2 minutes
| 15:58
|
| borja
| ahuillet: students can be stimulated outside the classroom :-)
| 15:58
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| ahuillet
| my very own experience is that pressuring teachers as a student does *not* get you much :)
| 15:58
|
| lh
| When should we schedule our next IRC meeting? I realistically can make time once every two weeks, once per month is better. I work well on the wiki and mailing lists.
| 15:58
|
| lh
| Others?
| 15:58
|
| borja
| ahuillet: I'm European, and I realize that we have a very classroom-oriented model there; but in the US, most of the academic life happens outside the classroom
| 15:58
|
| richardb
| it might be good to rotate the meeting time around for future meetings, to help people in other timezones
| 15:58
|
| lh
| ahuillet: we will add "how to persuade your professor" to our list of topics for mentoring
| 15:58
|
| twanj
| once a month or every 2 weeks is good
| 15:59
|
| ahuillet
| lh : good :) I need help in this area. :)
| 15:59
|
| richardb
| either frequency is good
| 15:59
|
| storming
| I'm flexible on times. Happy to contribute via email and list as well.
| 15:59
|
| ahuillet
| +1
| 15:59
|
| * vokimon_clam has to leave, will look to the remaining logs, bye...
| 15:59
|
| richardb
| perhaps have the next one in 2 weeks, to keep momentum up
| 15:59
|
| lh
| vokimon_clam: thank you for coming
| 15:59
|
| manus_eiffel
| every two weeks is good. I don't mind doing meetings at 11PM PST which is 8AM for most Europe except UK
| 15:59
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| richardb
| maybe drop to monthly after that.
| 15:59
|
| borja
| either option is fine for me
| 15:59
|
| lh
| okay, i like richardb's suggestion
| 16:00
|
| lh
| richardb: could you lead scheduling the next IRC meeting for us? i'll make sure i am present to help facilitate.
| 16:00
|
| richardb
| I can try! :)
| 16:00
|
| lh
| richardb: that's all we can ask. many thanks.
| 16:01
|
| richardb
| Does 11PM PST sound reasonable to most people, though?
| 16:01
|
| lh
| storming: what was that great tool you used for us all to vote on meeting times once again?
| 16:01
|
| richardb
| I know it would let Olly get here.
| 16:01
|
| ahuillet
| borja : I guess you have a point about the classroom-oriented model.
| 16:01
|
| storming
| it's a bit late for me ...
| 16:01
|
| storming
| hmm. let me find it.
| 16:01
|
| * lh can make herself available most times.
| 16:01
|
| lh
| storming: thank you
| 16:01
|
| ahuillet
| 11PM PST? that's very early in western europe for a computer hacker :)
| 16:01
|
| ahuillet
| but fine by me
| 16:02
|
| borja
| lh: I use meetomatic.com, which works great and has a very KISS interface
| 16:02
|
| lh
| i suggest we table discussion of actual times for now so folks with time constraints can head out now if need be
| 16:02
|
| richardb
| sure
| 16:02
|
| richardb
| I was going to send a mail out
| 16:02
|
| lh
| follow up on list using some sort of scheduling survey tool like suggested by borja
| 16:02
|
| lh
| richardb: awesome.
| 16:02
|
| richardb
| cool
| 16:02
|
| stjepan
| thanks for the meeting. this is a great initiative
| 16:03
|
| storming
| (I didn't tag my tool under anything intuitive but I wasn't especially pleased with it so if someone likes another one ...)
| 16:03
|
| lh
| storming: if you can find the other tool to suggest, awesome. if not, i am sure we can find something that works well.
| 16:03
|
| * ArthurLiu (n=arthurli@krikkit.milliways.fr) has joined #teachingopensource
| 16:03
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| lh
| storming: sounds very reasonable
| 16:03
|
| lh
| okay everyone, thank you all for coming
| 16:03
|